[From Investigation of Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce: Hearings before the Special Committee to Investigate Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, U.S. Senate, 81st Cong., 2nd Sess. and 82nd Congress, 1st Sess., Part 10, US Government Printing Office, Washington DC: 1950., pp. 1-25.]

__________

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 1950

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE,

Las Vegas, Nev.

CONFIDENTIAL

            The committee met, pursuant to call of the chairman, in Las Vegas, Nev., at 10 a. m., Senator Estes Kefauver (chairman) presiding.

            Present : Senators Kefauver, Tobey, and Wiley. Also present : Rudolph Halley, chief counsel; H. G. Robinson, associate counsel and chief investigator; William G. Ruymann, special counsel ; Herbert Van Brunt, special representative to the committee; Julius Cahn, administrative assistant to Senator Alexander Wiley.

EXECUTIVE SESSION

            The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a resolution prepared, Mr. Halley?

            Mr. HALLEY. Could we have a resolution in the record that one of the committee members would propose such a resolution, to read as follows :

That the chairman is hereby authorized to hold at his discretion subcommittee meetings in the States of Nevada and California, to appoint proper subcom- mittees to meet in the States of Nevada and California, and that such subcommittees may consist of one or more members of the committees, and that one committee member shall constitute a quorum for the purpose of swearing witnesses, taking testimony, and all other business pertinent to the hearings of this committee.

            Senator WILEY. Move for the adoption of the resolution.

            The CHAIRMAN. Second the motion ? All in favor say "Aye." Let it be known by saying "Aye."

            Let the record show that the motion was made by Senator Wiley, seconded by Senator Tobey, unanimously passed by Senators Wiley, Tobey, and Kefauver.

            The Chair designates subcommittee consisting of Senators Tobey, Wiley, and himself to hold hearings in the State of Nevada and the State of California, and also the Chair may appoint, as set forth in the resolution, one member of such subcommittee to swear witnesses and to take sworn testimony.

            Anything else for the record that we need ?

            Mr. HALLEY. Nothing.

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2          ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM J. MOORE, LAS VEGAS, NEV.

            The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Moore, do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

            Mr. MOORE. I do.

            Mr. HALLEY. Mr. Moore, your full name is William R. Moore?

            Mr. MOORE. William J. Moore.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is your address?

            Mr. MOORE. 710 South Eighth Street, Las Vegas, Nev.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is your occupation?

            Mr. MOORE. Hotel executive.

            Mr. HALLEY. With what hotel are you connected?

            Mr. MOORE. Hotel Last Frontier.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you hold any public office in the State of Nevada?

            Mr. MOORE. I am a member of the Nevada Tax Commission.

            Mr. HALLEY. How long have you been a member of that commission ?

            Mr. MOORE. Approximately three and a half years.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are you chairman of that commission?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you ever been chairman?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Mr. Moore, are you acquainted with the history of the investigation conducted in the State of Nevada which resulted in the passage of the race wire service law which became effective July 1, 1949?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you tell the committee what led to the holding of hearings regarding the race-wire law in the State of Nevada, what facts and circumstances led to it, and in general describe the proceedings which were held?

            Perhaps, first you should state the position you held and the part you took in those proceedings.

            Mr. MOORE. At the time the proceedings took place, I was acting as a member of the Nevada Tax Commission representing business. I was appointed to the Nevada Tax Commission before the legislature turned the administration of the issuance of licenses and control of gambling over to the tax commission.

            Serving as a member of this Nevada Tax Commission, we received a letter from the local district attorney stating that conditions were bad in the race horse book business in Las Vegas.

            Mr. HALLEY. You are referring to Robert E. Jones?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. District attorney of Clark County?        

            Senator WILEY. When you say "local," do you mean the Federal or the State?

            Mr. MOORE. County attorney.

            Mr. HALLEY. He wrote on approximately, would you say, October 23, 1948, or thereabouts ?

            Mr. MOORE. I do not remember the date, but we did receive a letter from Robert E. Jones.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did he state that the situation was fraught with danger to the public peace ?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        3

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. And he pointed out that the condition could result in very unfavorable publicity to the State of Nevada, did he not, sir?

            Mr. MOORE. As I remember, yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Can you state what led to such a letter on the part of the district attorney ? About a year previously a man named Benjamin Siegel had been killed; is that correct?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Was he not one of the owners of the Flamingo Hotel ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you know what other interests he had in the State of Nevada ?

            Mr. MOORE. To my knowledge, he owned an interest in the race book in the Golden Nugget, and several other race books in the community.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did he not also have an interest in the racing wire service?

            Mr. MOORE. At one time I believe he attempted to establish his own service.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did not your hearing show that he exercised considerable powers over the decision as to who would have racing wire service in the Las Vegas area?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Following his assassination in 1947, was there a period of flux, particularly in and about the city of Las Vegas, with regard to the racing wire service?

            Mr. MOORE. What do you mean by "flux"?

            Mr. HALLEY. Well, things were unsettled, weren't they ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Was it that which led the district attorney to feel that there might be an outbreak of gang warfare?

            Mr. MOORE. I presume so.

            Mr. HALLEY. What do you know of your own knowledge, Mr. Moore, of it ?

            Mr. MOORE. To my own knowledge, I knew very little because at that particular time we did not have a race-book operation in the hotel. However, I can only state what I was told by numerous operators that Mr. Siegel said who was to get race-book service and who was not to get it.

            Mr. HALLEY. Those whom he said could not have it just didn't get it; is that what occurred?

            Mr. MOORE. They didn't get it, and some of them were very unhappy about it, and from time to time probably went to the district attorney to put in their gripes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you say that it became known that in return for giving people race wire service, Siegel would demand an interest in the proceeds of such service?

            Mr. MOORE. I believe the hearing pointed that out.

            Mr. HALLEY. In other words, he seemed to have the say-so on who would get the wire service; is that right so far?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And those who got it would have to allow him to participate in the profits of their racing book?

4          ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. MOORE. That is what the hearing brought out; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. So the people who were not getting such service were bitterly opposed to Siegel ; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. After Siegel's death, a man named Rosen, Benjamin Rosen, came to Las Vegas; is that right? Morris Rosen?

            Mr. MOORE. Morris Rosen ; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did Rosen succeed to many of Siegel's interests in the wire service?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, I believe the hearing pointed out that Rosen and Sedway and a brother of Benjamin Siegel—I can't recall his name

            Mr. ROBINSON. Soloway.

            Mr. MOORE. Took over the interests of the Golden Nugget and—and I believe the Frontier Club. I am not positive about that.

            Senator WILEY. Were these local characters?

            Mr. MOORE. Three of them had been here for quite some time. In fact, probably—one of them practically ever since the inception of the race wire in Las Vegas. His name was Sedway.

Rosen came in here from the East, to my knowledge.

            Mr. HALLEY. He came about a week after the murder of Siegel; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. I don't know exactly when he did come, but I know that he came in here.

            Mr. HALLEY. And he took, in effect, Siegel's place in the race-wire picture? Would that be right?

            Mr. MOORE. He took over the interests of the Golden Nugget and the Frontier Club and, supposedly—at least in the hearing—a fellow by the name of Connie Hurley at that time had the race-wire service.

            Mr. HALLEY. In connection with the Frontier Club, were they pot having some difficulties with the Stearns brothers with regard to racing-wire service? The Stearns brothers had a club right next door; didn't they?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes; the Stearns brothers had a club next door.

            Mr. HALLEY. Was that called the Santa Anita Club?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And they got to the point where they stole the racing-wire service from the Frontier Club?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. They put a microphone in the Frontier Club so that when the racing results were announced in the Frontier Club they could be heard at the Santa Anita Club ; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And the Frontier Club groups went to the Federal Communications Commission and the Federal district attorney in an effort to have them prosecuted; is that right?

            Mr. MOODY. I frankly do not remember who went to the Federal Communications Commission, but somebody did.

            Mr. HALLEY. All of this was resulting in great bitterness; is that right ?

            Mr. MOORE. Building up to pitched battle, frankly.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did the Governor, Governor Pitman, order hearings in October of 1948, here in Las Vegas?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        5

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. At those hearings the various people connected with the racing-wire service were heard; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Growing out of those hearings was it recommended to the State legislature that the Nevada gambling law and the Nevada race-wire-service law and the Nevada parimutuel law be passed and put into effect; is that correct?

            Mr. MOORE. No; that isn't exactly correct.

            Mr. HALLEY. Will you state the correct facts, then ?

            Mr. MOORE. In this State, to my knowledge, the Nevada Tax Coin-mission has never made a recommendation to the legislature concerning laws to be enacted.

            Senator WILEY. Did the Governor make the recommendations after those hearings?

            Mr. MOORE. I didn't read the Governor's message, so, frankly, I cannot state. I might say that

            Senator WILEY. They passed them, anyway ?

            Mr. MOORE. They passed them. I, individually, instituted the gambling law and saw that it was introduced to members of the legislature, and an attorney in Reno, Nev., drafted the original race-book bill that is now in effect, and through members of the legislature led to such.

            Mr. HALLEY. The law requires the licensing of all gambling establishments; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Prior to 1949 was it required that gambling establishments be licensed ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Both in town, the county?

            Mr. MOORE. The license in the State and the county, if they happen to be located in the county, or in the city, if they happen to be located in the city.

            Mr. HALLEY. Since what year, if you know, has it been necessary that gambling establishments be licensed ?

            Mr. MOORE. Since 1931, the enactment of the gambling law.

            Mr. HALLEY. And does the 1949 law strengthen the older law in any way ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you state how ?

            Mr. MOORE. It is a little hard to state exact things, but I will say frankly, through the State becoming involved in the licensing of gambling and the control of such, and the fact that they had to have a State license before they could get a city or a county license.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is that something that did not exist prior to 1949?

            Mr. MOORE. I do not remember the year, but it was somewhere-1948 or 1949, somewhere in there.

            Mr. HALLEY. You also passed a law requiring that the racing-wire service be furnished on a nondiscriminatory basis ; is that correct?

            Mr. MOORE. That became—I don't know whether it is part of the law or part of the rules and regulations of the tax commission, but that is essentially correct.

6          ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. Well, it is the law, entitled the "Race Wire Service Law." The rates which are charged must be fixed by State tax com- mission; is that right? or proved by the State tax commission?

            Mr. MOORE. They could not be above what they were on a certain date.

            Mr. HALLEY. March 1, 1948 ?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And any Increase would have to be approved by the commission?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And the charges to all consumers had to be on the same basis?

            Mr. MOORE. I don't remember whether it states that or not. It couldn't be any greater what they were charging. So if they are charging a particular individual $200 on March 1, 1948, they could never charge him over $200 without getting approval ; or if they were charging another individual $500 on March 1, 1948, they could not go over that without getting approval.

            Mr. HALLEY. They were not allowed to refuse service to anybody who was licensed by the State?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. And they must also have a county and township license, is that right ?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are they required to furnish such service at a reasonable price to be approved by the commission?

            Mr. MOORE. They have been required to furnish it at what figure they were furnishing it on March 1, 1948, or less.

            Mr. HALLEY. How about new people?

            Mr. MOORE. They have done so.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where there are new users, who fixes the rate? How do you prevent that rate from being so high as to be discriminatory?

            Mr. MOORE. That has never come up.

            Mr. HALLEY. Nobody has ever complained about the rate which was asked of them?

            Senator WILEY. Discriminatory or confiscatory?

            Mr. HALLEY. I said discriminatory as against the user. Also, you would be confiscating his business; it would be both.

            Senator WILEY. I don't think the record is very clear when you talk about the rate as to just what you mean.

            Mr. HALLEY. We are talking about the charge which is made generally on a weekly basis by the operators of the racing-wire information service to the operator of a betting room or a horse book. Those charges are made weekly.

            Senator WILEY. I think that clears it up, at least in my own mind.

            Mr. MOORE. What was your question again ?

            Mr. HALLEY. The question before you was whether you had any complaints from any users of racing service that discriminatory prices were being charged.

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, I have been told that, by an operator, that he wrote a letter to Carson City complaining about the rate.

            Mr. HALLEY. But nothing has been done by the commission?

            Mr. MOORE. I have not seen that letter and, frankly, I have neglected to ask the secretary of the commission if he ever got the letter.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE, COMMERCE       7

            Mr. HALLEY. How long ago were you told about it?

            Mr. MOORE. About 3 weeks ago.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who was the operator or who complained?

            Mr. MOORE. The operator that complained was Connie Hurley. I might explain, however, that during the time that this—of this hearing—Connie Hurley controlled the race-wire service. That is, he was the local representative.

            Mr. HALLEY. He was registered as the owner; was he not?

            Mr. MOORE. I presume; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. For the record, At this time what was the name of the service he controlled ?

            Mr. MOORE. That I do not remember.

            Mr. HALLEY. Go ahead.

            Senator WILEY. Mr. Halley, may I interrupt here again? Do I understand now that what happened was this : That you have passed this law that the charge was fixed by the State through the tax commission for the wire service in each individual case. In other words, the wire service had nothing to do with fixing the charge; is that right ?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Senator WILEY. Are you sure that they all played fair, or there weren't any rebates or there weren't some overcharges by anybody ?

            Mr. MOORE. No, frankly.

            Senator WILEY. You don't know ?

            Mr. MOORE. I don't know.

            Senator WILEY. Who was in control of the wire service?

            Mr. MOORE. Do you mean after the law went into effect ?

            Senator WILEY. Yes.

            Mr. MOORE. There was a fellow by the name of Dunne.

            Senator WILEY. Where does he live?

            Mr. MOORE. That was appointed.

            Senator WILEY. Where does he live?

            Mr. MOORE. He lives here in Las Vegas; James Dunne. He was appointed by whoever controls the wire service.

            Senator WILEY. He was appointed by the owners of the wire service ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator WILEY. Who are they ?

            Mr. MOORE. That I don't know.

            The CHAIRMAN. Is it Continental Press that comes in here ?

            Mr. MOORE. I think so ; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. It is now Continental. It comes from Arizona.

            Senator WILEY. May I interrupt again? .Were there fixed rates by the commission depending upon, apparently, the number of clients served, or how was that done ? How did they arrive at that ?

            Mr. MOORE. Fellow, there has never been a meeting of all of the race-book operators called by the tax commission, and we assume that if somebody had a squawk concerning the race wire service charge, that we would hear from him.

            Senator WILEY. What was the State's take altogether ? Do you know what it amounted to?

            Mr. MOORE. Do you mean from licensing the race wire service?

            Senator WILEY. Yes.

8          ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, I do not know.

            Senator TOBEY. Are most of these gamblers and bookmakers crooked?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator TOBEY. Are most of them members of high integrity ?

            Mr. MOORE. Well, it depends on how you describe "high integrity."

            Senator TOBEY. You know what integrity is as well as I do: character.

            Mr. MOORE. I would say that it is probably like any other profession. There are some

            Senator TOBEY. No more in this business than there are in any commercial line ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes, I would say a few more shady characters.

            Senator TOBEY. What hope do you ever see of getting rid of them ?

            Mr. MOORE. That I have never thought of.

            Senator TOBEY. Would that be a desirable thing, in your judgment ?

            Mr. MOORE. Some individuals, maybe, yes.

            Senator TOBEY. For the common good, I mean.

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. How much does your establishment pay for the service ?

            Mr. MOORE. For the race-wire service?

            Senator TOBEY. Yes.

            Mr. MOORE Approximately $200 per month. It is just a new establishment and it was just started, and frankly it was started at too low a rate in comparison to other large establishments, and we were told by Mr. Dunne at the time we put the race book in there that within a reasonable length of time, after it had a chance to build up any amount of business, that we would go on the same rate that the larger downtown clubs did.

            Senator TOBEY. It might interest you to know, Mr. Moore, that we examined the Continental Press directors and officials in Washington, and asked how many receivables they had, and they had 20 or 24 receivables. The first name on his list, we asked them what they paid for the service, and it may surprise you that they said $6,000. And I said, "$6,000 a year ?"

            "Oh, no, $6,000 a week."

            So there is one that pays $312,000 a year to Continental Service. Does that surprise you?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator TOBEY. $312,000 a year ?

            Mr. MOORE. That doesn't surprise me.

            Senator WILEY. Is that all you have paid, this $200 a month?

            Mr. MOORE. That is approximately it. It may be $225.

            Senator TOBEY. There is no other under-the-table arrangement of any kind?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator TOBEY. Is there anyone coming around from the service and attempting to blackmail you for anything?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            The CHAIRMAN. Who do you make your checks to for the service?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, fellow, the auditor handles that, and I cannot answer. I presume to James Dunne.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        9

            Senator TOBEY. Mr. Witness, you are the chairman of the tax commission, aren't you ?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator TOBEY. What is your position?

            Mr. MOORE. I represent business on the tax commission.

            Senator TOBEY. That interests me. How many members are on the tax commission?

            Mr. MOORE. Seven.

            Senator TOBEY. And one represents business ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. What do the others represent?

            Mr. MOORE. One represents mining, one represents--

            Senator TOBEY. Wouldn't mining come under the spur of business? What is your definition of business in that category there?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, I only know how the commission is set up, fellow, and I can tell you.

            Senator TOBEY. How were you appointed, by the Governor?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. To represent business ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. What are the other classifications? Mining and what else ?

            Mr. MOORE. Mining, cattle, industry, land, banks, and a member or the head of the publishing service commissions, a member, which would control the utilities and the Governor.

            Senator TOBEY. How much control does the tax commission have over gambling and books in this State?

            Mr. MOORE. Enough control that you could put them all out of business.

            Senator TOBEY. Then the question comes about these tariffs; they vary tremendously, don't they, from nothing up to 100, we'll say, the ratio? Wouldn't it seem to indicate that you, as a member of the commission, that the important thing to do would be to have a system of tariffs that was uniform?

            Mr. MOORE. No; and the principal reason being that business isn't uniform.

            Senator .TOBEY. Well, all business, do you mean?

            Mr. MOORE. No, the gambling business, the book business.

            Senator TOBEY. They all get the same facilities, don't they ?

            Mr. MOORE. They get the same facilities.

            Senator TOBEY. Doesn't individual initiative count in there, and personality ?

            Mr. MOORE. Not necessarily. The amount of the investment, the size of the club, the amount of money that a man has to spend on advertising, and so forth. It is just like any other business.

            Senator TOBEY. It gives you tremendous powers for good or evil, to buy favor and curry favor. You can put the juice on one man and enrich the other man, can't you? You can impoverish a certain man and you can crown others, can't you ?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator TOBEY. Why can't you ?

            Mr. MOORE. It isn't worked on that basis. In other words, it must be a fair and square deal.

10        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Senator TOBEY. It is a square deal that one man gets it for $200 a month and another man pays $6,000 ?

            Mr. MOORE. I don't know of any man that pays $6,000.

            Senator TOBEY. To me, a lay mind, it seems like a tremendous disparity, not only in the ethics but in justice.

            Mr. MOORE. To start with, fellow, the rates are limited as to what they were paying in March 1948, and they cannot charge a rate higher than that.

            Mr. HALLEY. You could authorize them to ?

            Mr. MOORE. We could authorize them to, but we have not done so.

            Senator TOBEY. You have been rather passive, rather than active?

            Mr. MOORE. We have been very active, as far as the gambling and race horse business is concerned.

            Senator TOBEY. Who dominates the tax commission?

            Mr. MOORE. No domination.

            Senator TOBEY. Rule of majority, is that it?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Senator TOBEY. Who is chairman?

            Mr. MOORE. The Governor.

            Mr. HALLEY. How many licenses have you refused to issue since the commission has had the licensing power?

            Mr. MOORE. That I couldn't tell you, the number, I would say several hundred.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you revoked any licenses ?

            Mr. MOORE. Possibly 75 to 100.

            Mr. HALLEY. In what cases have you refused to issue licenses ?

            Mr. MOORE. There are numbers of things, but the main thing is the man's background, essentially.

            Senator TOBEY. His character, in other words ?

            Mr. MOORE. His character.

            Senator TOBEY. Or lack of it?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right. That is, in our judgment, as members of that board. Whether or not our judgment is correct, that is something else again.

            Mr. HALLEY. And there you have full discretion, is that right ?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. You refused to license James Carroll of St. Louis this spring, did you not?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is that one example?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. On what basis did you refuse to license him ?

            Mr. MOORE. Principally because of his national prominence in the race book business.

            Mr. HALLEY. Does that affect his character?

            Mr. MOORE. No, but that is the reason that the license was refused.

            Mr. HALLEY. Then you have the widest of discretion, is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. He had no previous convictions, had he?

            Mr. MOORE. Not to my knowledge.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        11

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Senator TOBEY. Isn't that a bar sinister to give him a license. Shouldn't it be a condition precedent to giving him a license, that the man is clean and has no criminal record?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, no. That is my opinion.

            Senator TOBEY. Your standards are different than some of ours.

            Mr. MOORE. In my opinion.

            Mr. HALLEY. In fact, you have some licensees here—you have certain licensees here who are in fact refugees, fugitives from justice in other States, is that correct?

            Mr. MOORE. Not to my knowledge.

            Mr. HALLEY. Don't you have some licensees who at the present time are here because they cannot be extradited from the State of Nevada?

            Mr. MOORE. Not to my knowledge.

            Mr. HALLEY. How about Binyon?

            Mr. MOORE. He is not a licensee.

            Mr. HALLEY. Doesn't he run an operation here?

            Mr. MOORE. No, not at the present time. He did at one time.

            Senator WILEY. What is your profit on bookmaking in a year, if you pay $2,400 or $2,500 a year to the State?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, fellow, I have been in business only about 2 months, as far as race business is concerned, so I couldn't tell you what a year. I could tell you what we made in the month of October in the way of department profit before depreciation, amortization, or insurance was charged.

            Senator WILEY. How much ?

            Mr. MOORE. About $3,400.

            Senator WILEY. A month?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator WILEY. Net, do you mean?

            Mr. MOORE. Net; that is department profit.

            Mr. HALLEY. What, if you know, does the Flamingo pay for its racing book service?

            Mr. MOORE. I do not know exactly.

            Mr. HALLEY. There was a time when the Flamingo had its service free, is that right, during the Bugsy Siegel days?

            Mr. MOORE. I believe that in that hearing it came out that for a time they did get free service.

            Mr. HALLEY. The Flamingo, in other words, paid nothing?

            Mr. MOORE. I might explain, if you would allow me to do so. The line of questioning you started on considering Connie Hurley and a letter that he wrote to the tax commission concerning service; he was the owner of the service. He paid so much money to Continental Press. He charged the other operators a certain amount of money, and what was left he paid himself. In other words, it was approximately $150 a month out of the book that he was operating in one of the downtown spots. So, frankly, Hurley was getting what was equivalent to a rebate because he was the operator or local representative of the wire service.

            Mr. HALLEY. As a member of the commission, do you think it is wise to allow the people operating the wire service to have any connection whatsoever with a book?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did he have any criminal record?

            Mr. MOORE. Not to my knowledge.

            Mr. HALLEY. You have a number of licensees here who have criminal records, do you not?

12        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. Where is Connie Hurley's home?

            Mr. MOORE. Connie Hurley has no connection with the Continental Press any more.

            Mr. HALLEY. When did he discontinue his connection ?

            Mr. MOORE. At the time that law was passed.

            Mr. HALLEY. I don't quite understand what his complaint was. What did he have to pay to the wire service?

            Mr. MOORE. I imagine somewhere in the neighborhood of $348 or $368 a month.

            Mr. HALLEY. In other words, they give him a salary of $150 a week and whatever is left over he pays them ?

            Mr. MOORE. Well

            Mr. HALLEY. It is a varying amount, is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. No, you have got it mixed up.

            Mr. HALLEY. Let's get it again.

            Mr. MOORE. In other words, Hurley was the — at the time the hearing was called he was the local representative of Continental Press.

            Mr. HALLEY. He was listed as the owner of the Nevada Publishing Co., the Continental distributor here.

            Mr. MOORE. All right. He paid Continental Press a certain amount of money per week. What that amount of money is, I don't remember. At that time he was also operating a race book. He charged the other operators a certain amount of money, which amount of money I do not remember, and what he didn't charge the operators he paid out of his race book

            Mr. HALLEY. Oh, I see.

            Mr. MOORE. Which was approximately $150 a month. In other words, frankly, lie was his own—his race book was getting special treatment, frankly.

            Mr. HALLEY. How does that carry over, now that his race book pays more ?

            Mr. MOORE. His race book at the present time is paying approximately what other operators of the same type were paying. However,

was told that the letter is up there, and as soon as we have time to do something about it we will have to call a hearing and get Connie Hurley and James Dunne up there and straighten it out.

            Mr. HALLEY. In other words, Hurley simply wanted to get back to his 1948 rate; is that right— .

            Mr. MOORE. Which was $150 a week.

            Mr. HALLEY. Which was discriminatory in his favor?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you had no complaints about people who have been charged exorbitant rates, too high, Mr. Moore ?

            Mr. MOORE. To my knowledge, no.

            Mr. HALLEY. There have been no such complaints that you know of ?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator WILEY. Before this law went into effect, how many folks were engaged in the booking business, and so forth?

            Mr. MOORE. Approximately six or seven establishments.

            Senator WILEY. How many since?

            Mr. MOORE. I believe, if I am not mistaken, there are approximately, somewhere between 12 and 15 outlets in Las Vegas at the present time.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        13

            Senator WILEY. Now, then, in your judgment, has the quality of the operators been bettered or worsened by the law ?

            Mr. MOORE. I would say bettered. I will qualify that statement. You are talking about the quality of the operators. in other words

            Senator WILEY. The ones that get the licenses.

            Mr. MOORE. The fellows that get the licenses. I would say that the fellows who have gotten the new licenses were people that were operating clubs here in the State before the law went into effect.

            Senator WILEY. How many of them were nonresidents?

            Mr. MOORE. Very few of them.

            Senator WILEY. Out of the 15, how many ?

            Mr. MOORE. There are no nonresidents unless it happens to be a member of a corporation.

            Senator WILEY. Was one of the features, then, of the law that you increased the number of operators under license from 7 to 15 ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator WILEY. Is that what you mean?

            Mr. MOORE. Well, here is the whole thing in a nutshell. When the law went into effect, there were numbers of people operating clubs in the community that could not get a license—not a license.

            Senator WILEY. Service?

            Mr. MOORE. Scratch that. Could not get service, so when the law went into effect they applied for service and applied for a license, which was automatically increased—which automatically increased the number of outlets in the community.

            Senator WILEY. Does the law pay for itself ?

            Mr. MOORE. Does what?

            Senator WILEY. Does the law, as you have passed it now, pay for what you collect?

            Mr. MOORE. Oh, most assuredly.

            The CHAIRMAN. Anything else?

            Mr. HALLEY. Mr. Moore, how long have you been connected with the Last Frontier Hotel?

            Mr. MOORE. Ever since its inception. I was the architect on the construction.

            Mr. HALLEY. When was that?

            Mr. MOORE. We finished it—opened it in October of 1942.

            Mr. HALLEY. What had been your business prior to 1942 ?

            Mr. MOORE. I was an architect.

            Mr. HALLEY. For how long ?

            Mr. MOORE. About 4 1/2 years, in Dallas, Tex.

            Mr. HALLEY. Prior to that?

            Mr. MOORE. Prior to that, I was going to school at Oklahoma A. R M. College and working in the construction business.

            Mr. HALLEY. You came to Nevada in 1942?

            Mr. MOORE. 1941.

            Mr. HALLEY. 1941 ; 'and proceeded to build the Last Frontier Hotel; is that right ?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who are your associates there?

            Mr. MOORE. The president of our company is H. J. Griffith, who lives in Dallas, Tex., and lie is also connected with a large chain of theaters back through the Middle West.

14        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. Who are the other principals?

            Mr. MOORE. The vice president of the corporation is myself, and there are 10 other members of the organization. Barron, who operates our gambling, he originally came from Texas, but came to Las Vegas from California. And all of the other members—I can name them, if you like.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you submit to the committee a list instead at some time today ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. What interest have you, what percentage?

            Mr. MOORE. In the Last Frontier ?

            Mr. HALLEY. Yes.

            Mr. MOORE. I own approximately one-twelfth of the stock of the operating company, and I own 408 shares of the owning company. I am the only member of the operating company that holds stock in the owning company.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who else owns stock in the owning company with you?

            Mr. MOORE. The principal man of the stock is owned and controlled by the theater organization in Dallas, Tex.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did they provide the capital, Griffith?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much capital was provided?

            Mr. MOORE. Well, I believe the book value of the hotel at the present time is about $2,600,000, in that neighborhood.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did the theater chain provide all of that capital?

            Mr. MOORE. Originally the capital was provided by R. E. Griffith, and then Mr. Griffith passed away, and through his estate the theater company acquired his estate, through purchase, and that is the way they acquired the stock in the hotel.

            Mr. HALLEY. Does the owning company, then, lease the premises to an operating company?

            Mr. MOORE. operating

            Mr. HALLEY. And the operating company consists of 11 men?

            Mr. MOORE. Twelve men.

            Mr. HALLEY. Twelve men?

            Mr. MOORE. Eleven besides myself.

            Mr. HALLEY. Ana you have a one-eighth interest in the operating company; is that right ?

            Mr. MOORE. No; I have a one-twelfth.

            Mr. HALLEY. It is evenly divided; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Does the operating company operate both the hotel and the gambling? Is it all one operation?

            Mr. MOORE. It is all one operation.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are there no special concessions whatsoever for gambling ?

            Mr. MOORE. We have a deal on slot machines with a local man here.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who is that?    

            Mr. MOORE. Harry Farnow, F-a-r-n-o-w.

            Mr. HALLEY. What type of deal is that?

            Mr. MOORE. He supplies new machines every 2 years and gets 15 percent of the take.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE. COMMERCE       15

            Mr. HALLEY. Does lie take care of the machines, too ?

            Mr. MOORE. He keeps them repaired, and so forth.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who actually takes the money out of them ?

            Mr. MOORE. He and one of our representatives.

            Mr. HALLEY. Together?

            Mr. MOORE Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you have any other concessions?

            Mr. MOORE. In the gambling?

            Mr. HALLEY. Yes.

            Mr. MOORE. Yes ; there is a fellow by the name of Waterman that has 50 percent interest in the penny roulette; a fellow by the name of Phillips that has a 50 percent interest in the commission room.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who is Phillips ?

            Mr. MOORE. He came out of California, fellow.

            Mr. HALLEY. Why do you have these concessions? Let's take the slot machines first. Certainly the investment is not such that your own company could not make it; is it?

            Mr. MOORE. No. The principal reason being that the man knows the business backward. He knows where to place the machines. He is a merchant in that particular line, and the fact that if he supplies new machines every 2 years, which you need if you get any activity on them at all, taking everything into consideration, he makes about 6 or 7 percent on his investment; so, frankly, it is a lot less trouble. for us, and we are willing to let him make the 6 or 7 percent rather than have to mess with them ourselves.

            Mr. HALLEY. Could you buy the machines if you wanted to ? Are they available on the market?

            Mr. MOORE. Oh, sure.

            Mr. HALLEY. Can anybody buy a machine and set it up in this State

            Mr. MOORE. Yes, as long as they have a license.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you explain why you have the other concessions? Take the commission room.

            Mr. MOORE. Well, the penny roulette is an illustration, and the reason we have that concession is that we know nothing on earth about penny roulette, and it is a special game all within itself, and I have seen many people try to operate it and never make a quarter. Others operate it and do all right.

            Senator TOBEY. Does this man have a concession in the other hotels? I am speaking of Farnow.

            Mr. MOORE. No; I think that is the only concession he has at the present time, but at one time he did have the concession in the El Rancho.  And Phillips on the commission room, frankly, that is a dangerous genie. You can win or lose $200,000 or $300,000 or more in one day.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you explain what the commission room is?

            Mr. MOORE. The commission room is a lay-off room for the racehorse book. In other words, they lay off bets that are received in the race book.

            Senator TOBEY. Reinsurance?

            Mr. MOORE. Reinsurance, yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you lay off all your bets, or only a part?

            Mr. MOORE. We lay off the ones we want to lay off.

            Mr. HALLEY. What was the answer ?

16        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. MOORE. I said we lay off the bets that we want to lay off. In other words

            Mr. HALLEY. You keep some lay-offs, though?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you accept any lay-off bets from others? In other words, do you do any lay-off booking?

            Mr. MOORE. To my knowledge, no.

            Mr. HALLEY. With whom do you lay off ?

            Mr. MOORE. I presume that he lays off with people all over America. Who the exact people are, I don't know.

            Mr. HALLEY. In other words, you lay off in States where gambling is not legal; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. I presume; yes.

            The CHAIRMAN. Where does Mr. Phillips have his office, the lay-off man?

            Mr. MOORE. Right in the race—right off the race-horse book?

            The CHAIRMAN. Does he do the same thing for other books in Las Vegas?

            Mr. MOORE. I presume so, yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. He has a table with an elaborate set of keys on it so that he can put long-distance calls to cities all over the country ; is that not right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And you have special arrangements with the phone companies that your long-distance calls go through very fast?

            Mr. MOORE. He does have. He made those arrangements.

            Senator TOBEY. Those long-distance calls from the commission room take precedence over private calls?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, I can't answer that.

            Mr. HALLEY. They go right through in a matter of seconds?

            Mr. MOORE. They go right through; I know that.

            Mr. HALLEY. He just presses a button and he is there.

            Senator TOBEY. So that the time that might elapse if a man wanted to place a million dollars in lay-off bets with

            Mr. MOORE. Might be only a matter of minutes anyplace.

            Senator TOBEY. It is done by word of mouth? He accepts it and it is all done?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Senator TOBEY. Is it confirmed by letter or telegraph?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator TOBEY. It is all a matter of yes or no?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Senator TOBEY. Is there any reneging?

            Mr. MOORE. At times there have been in such operations, but as far as Phillips is concerned, I doubt it.

            The CHAIRMAN. He lays off with Carroll, Erickson, and other people?

            Mr. MOORE. He lays off with a lot of people, fellow. Exactly who they are, I don't know. If I did, I would tell you.

            Mr. HALLEY. For the committee's information, it is presumed, I believe, that the general set-up is the same in all of the hotels\ and gambling establishments, is it not, the technical arrangements ?

            Mr. MOORE. What do you mean ?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        17

            Mr. HALLEY. For instance, the commission rooms, the horse room.

            Mr. MOORE. Well, in some places, yes; in some places, no. The gambling—the Flamingo Hotel, I think, has a commission room. I don't know about the others, frankly, but I don't think that any of the other hotels have a commission room.

            Mr. HALLEY. How do they handle their lay-off ?

            Mr. MOORE. They handle it through somebody. Exactly who, I don't know.

            Mr. HALLEY. For the committee's information, if they have time, would it be possible for them to see the commission room and the remaining parts of the establishment at the Last Frontier?

            Mr. MOORE. Sure.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you think you could guide them through and show them the various operations?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Senator TOBEY. Perhaps the most serious blow that can be struck, providing it is wise to do it, at this professional gambling game, as a national evil, if it is such, would be to make it illegal by Federal law for the transmission of any gambling information by wire service, wouldn't it? That would be a crimp in it, wouldn't it?

            Mr. MOORE. That would put a crimp in that racing.

            Senator TOBEY. If you were in charge and paid a fee of $50 to put in something to put them out of business, what would you do?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, fellow, the law is about the only way----

            Senator TOBEY. Would you suggest boycotting or prohibiting lay-off bets? Wouldn't that be a strangle blow to the thing?

            Mr. MOORE. You are going to have to get at the wire itself and make it illegal for the telephone companies to supply service, and so forth and so on. You have got to go all the way, if you start.

            Mr. HALLEY. If an interstate lay-off bet were illegal and the telephone company were required by law to give the information to the prosecuting officers, you would pretty well stop it, wouldn't you?

            Mr. MOORE. I would say so ; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. It would be impossible for the phone company not to know where a large lay-off operation was going on, wouldn't you say that ?

            Mr. MOORE. I would say practically impossible. Of course, I don't know about the larger operations where they have more mechanical equipment, but I know it would be impossible in this small community.

            Mr. HALLEY. We understand, of course, that your local operations within the State of Nevada are legal, and with that in mind would you give the committee in round figures the net profits of the gambling establishments operated by the Last Frontier, say, the last 5 years?

            Mr. MOORE. Fellow, I can give you the gross.

            Mr. HALLEY. What would the gross be?

            Mr. MOORE. The gross in all operations in the Last Frontier including gambling last year—

            Mr. HALLEY. By "gross" do you mean gross profits?

            Mr. MOORE. Gross dollars taken in.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is that, first ? Let's get that figure.

            Mr. MOORE. Approximately $4,000,000.

            Mr. HALLEY. That is the gross receipts?

            Mr. MOORE. That is the gross receipts in food, beverages, gambling.

18        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. Everything?

            Mr. MOORE. Everything.

            Senator TOBEY. All income?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is the gross profit for the last year?

            Mr. MOORE. That, frankly, I don't remember. I know we—

            Mr. HALLEY. What did you make last year?

            Mr. MOORE. We showed approximately 100 and—as I remember, $135,000 net profit.

            Mr. HALLEY. For the entire operation ?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Senator TOBEY. It wasn't very much, was it?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much rent is paid to the owning company ?

            Mr. MOORE. The original rent was approximately $10,000 a month. However, the owning company has built a number of buildings since the original lease was made and it is now—we are now paying approximately $14,000 a month.

            Mr. HALLEY. They get no percentage of the gross or the net?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator WILEY. Who owns it?

            Mr. MOORE. Who owns the hotel?

            Senator WILEY No, the holding company. Who are the big stockholders ?

            Mr. MOORE. It is owned by this theater chain, Theater Enterprises, in Dallas, Tex.

            Senator WILEY. You said the Griffith estate. I think you said he died.

            Mr. MOORE. Well, we organized a corporation after Griffith's death; and bought theaters and estate, and so forth and so on.

            Senator WILEY. I want to find out who the big stockholders are in that.

            Mr. MOORE. Well, I think the new organization—I think it is evenly divided between 8 or 10 people.

            Senator WILEY. Can you name them?

            Mr. MOORE. Well, there is a fellow by the name of Payne, fellow by the name of Harris, Heinscheid, Stocker, R. E. Griffith, Jr., which is the son of the man that passed away. Essentially, those are the principal ones.

            Senator WILEY. Are they all residents of Texas?

            Mr. MOORE. Most of them, yes.

            Senator WILEY. Are they all businessmen ?

            Mr. MOORE. In the theater business ; operate some 200 theaters,

            Mr. HALLEY. Do any of the stockholders in the operating company receive salaries?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes, I receive a salary.

            Mr. HALLEY. What salary is that?

            Mr. MOORE. I receive $10,000 a year plus my food, and 5 percent of the gambling operations after rental is charged, and depreciation, and so forth and so on.

            Mr. HALLEY. Let's get this now. Before we get to this $134,000 net profit, you have received $10,000 in salary ; item 1.

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        19

            Mr. HALLEY. Item 2, your food. Do you live at the hotel, too?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. You do not get your accommodations free, then?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Item 3 would be 5 percent of the net from the gambling operations ?

            Mr. MOORE. The way it is figured is all of the direct expenses on the gambling department—we call it a department—all of the direct expenses, including wages and so forth and so on, are taken off of the gross figure, and then one-half of the entertainment and one-half of the advertising, plus rent and maintenance and lights and water, and so forth and so on, are then taken off, and then I get 5 percent of that.

            Mr. HALLEY. What did that amount to last year?

            Mr. MOORE. My income last year was, approximately, somewhere between $75,000 and $84,000, somewhere in that neighborhood.

            Senator TOBEY. A minute ago you told us that the income was $5,000,000 or $4,000,000 from all sources. What I am getting at is : Was that for 1 year or several years ?

            Mr. MOORE. One year; $2,000,000 of that $4,000,000 came from gambling.

            The CHAIRMAN. How about these other 11 partners. Do they receive salaries?

            Mr. MOORE. The fellow that operates the gambling department, Barron, receives approximately what is equivalent to about $12,000 a year in direct wages plus his food.

            Senator TOBEY. Is some eastern capital in the enterprises that you control?

            Mr. MOORE. No; it is all out of Dallas, Tex., or Las Vegas.

            Senator TOBEY. Does the Flamingo compare, if you know, with your earnings, the El Rancho, and so forth ?

            Mr. MOORE. I would say it depends on what their corporate set-up is and how long their lease runs, and so forth and so on, because if the lease is a short lease you have got a big write-off, and if it is a long " lease you have got a slow write-off, so that enters into the net profit, you see. I would say that their gross is one that compares very favorably. What their corporate set-up is and their write-off is and so forth, I would have no way of knowing.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you had better years than last year?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes; 1945 was a better year.

            Mr. HALLEY. What was your gross in 1945?

            Mr. MOORE. I don't remember, fellow, and I don't know that the gross was any better than it was last year, but the net was better.

            Mr. HALLEY. The net was better?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes, because of not so much write-off, frankly.

            Mr. HALLEY. How about other years? Was 1946 a good year?

            Mr. MOORE. 1946 was a good year.

            Mr. HALLEY. Better than 1949 ?

            Mr. MOORE. That I can't remember.

            Mr. HALLEY. Can you furnish the committee—I presume you have a report for each of your years of operation ?

            Mr. MOORE. A full audit for every year or any month.

20        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. The committee, as one of its purposes in being here, is attempting to get some reliable figures on the operation of a gambling establishment, which is obviously almost impossible to obtain in any other State.

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. So that if you could give us the annual auditor's report for each year of your operation, we would like very much to have it.

            The CHAIRMAN. From 1945.

            Mr. HALLEY. From 1942 on.

            Senator WILEY. Wouldn't it be a good idea to get a breakdown on food, gambling?

You told us $2,000,000 of that $4,000,000 was from gambling?

            The CHAIRMAN. Who is Ballard Barron? He is the one that operates the gambling place?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right. I might explain further that in addition to his wages of $12,000 a year, he draws 5 percent of the gambling, too, based on the same

            The CHAIRMAN. Basis that you get your money ?

            Mr. MOORE. On the same basis that I get mine.

            The CHAIRMAN. So he makes approximately the same amount you do?

            Mr. MOORE. Approximately, yes.

            Senator WILEY. Between $70,000 and $80,000 a year?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right. Some years, back in 1942, it was considerably less because our gross was less, and so forth and so on.

            The CHAIRMAN. I have a note here that he had an interest in some of the gambling ships off the California coast. Is that right ?

            Mr. MOORE. At one time I think he did, yes.

            The CHAIRMAN. He doesn't have it now?

            Mr. MOORE. No, there are no such operations now.

            Senator TOBEY. Did you know Bugsy Siegel personally ? ^

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. Talked with him, met him ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. Was a personable fellow ?

            Mr. MOORE. At times; at other times, kind of hard to get along with.

            Senator TOBEY. Was he yellow ?

            Mr. MOORE. That, I can't say.

            Mr. HALLEY. How was the daily gross income from the gambling operations computed? Let us take the crap tables, for instance. Does each table start with a bank roll of its own?

            Mr. MOORE. It starts with a bank; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. What allowance is given to each table? Does it vary on different nights?

            Mr. MOORE. No; because we work it on the fill basis. In other words, we start off with a certain bank, and, as the money goes out, it goes out, we put what we call a fill in there.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is the bank roll for the entire operation ?

            Mr. MOORE. Well the bank roll in the one casino at the hotel is $100,000. In the one at the Village it is approximately the same, $75,000 to $100,000.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you start each individual table with a certain allowance?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        21

            Mr. MOORE. A certain amount of money; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. During the course of the evening do you take back any overage?

            Mr. MOORE. We make fills, if they need fills, or we take back overages as the racks come in. We make records of the fills and we make records of the overages as they come back to the casino cage.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who does the actual collection?

            Mr. MOORE. What do you mean, "collection"?

            Mr. HALLEY. Of the money from the tables during the course of the 'evening.

            Mr. MOORE. Well, usually a policeman on our payroll will collect the money or get the boxes. The boxes are locked and they are brought to the casino cage, and the cashier and the manager of the gambling in the hotel counts the money.

            Mr. HALLEY. That is recorded, each individual time the box is opened; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And any additional money sent out to the table is also recorded ?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Ordinarily, those chips are cashed in at the cashier's cage; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is every individual transaction with the cashier where the cashier cashes chips also recorded ?

            Mr. MOORE. No.

            Senator WILEY. Who is your auditor?

            Mr. MOORE. Wolf & Co., out of Oklahoma City, principally because they are the auditors for the theater company, and there is a close alliance there, so we tried 40 auditors in this part of the country and they never could do a good job, so we just sent it to Oklahoma City.

            Senator WILEY. Are you interested in any other similar enterprise any place?

            Mr. MOORE. Am I interested? No; I have no other gambling interests.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is the system inside the cashier's cage to safeguard both the individual partners and the Government for taxes? How do you operate ?

            Mr. MOORE. In what do you mean ?

            Mr. HALLEY. What control have you got in there?

            Mr. MOORE. The casino cashier and the manager of the gambling department count the money and record it.

            Mr. HALLEY. Each night?

            Mr. MOORE. Each night, as the boxes are taken in.

            Mr. HALLEY. And the manager actually stays in the cage?

            Mr. MOORE. No; he only goes in the cage when he is called there by the cashier.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is he called there every time a box is opened ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. And he counts the money with the cashier; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

22        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. How do you handle it when somebody walks up to the window with a stack of chips to cash them in? Who records that?

            Mr. MOORE. There is no recording of it. We have a record of the number of chips that are on the tables, and that is the only place that people can get any chips.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you have a daily count of the chips?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. When chips come into the cage, gambling money is just paid out and no record is kept?

            Mr. MOORE. The money is paid out and the chips are racked back up again, and you have got a certain amount of chips all the time. You work with a certain number.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where do you get your chips?

            Mr. MOORE. We buy them from various companies.

            The CHAIRMAN. Anything else?

            Mr. HALLEY. Yes. I was getting on to another line. How did you happen to become a member of the State tax commission?

            Mr. MOORE. I was appointed there by the Governor. A man by the name of Mannix, in Boulder City, Nev., had become sick, was a member of the commission, and the Governor appointed me to the commission.

            Mr. HALLEY. When were you appointed?

            Mr. MOORE: Approximately three and a half years ago, May 1.

            Mr. HALLEY. Does the commission divide up its functions so that you, as the business representative, have more to say about the licensing of gamblers than the other representatives ?

            Mr. MOORE. I have no more to say other than I handle the questioning. I handle the investigation and so forth and so on.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you make specific recommendations ?

            Mr. MOORE. Specific recommendations—but, as far as the voting is concerned, why no.

            Mr. HALLEY. We have a list of some of the people who have been operating here. Let's take, for instance, the Bank Club operated by William Graham and James McKay.

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you issue—recommend the issuance of a license to Graham and McKay?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, I imagine the motion was made by somebody from Reno.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you vote for a license for Graham and McKay ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Graham and McKay were convicted in the southern district of New York, were they not?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Of a violation of a Federal law.

            Mr. MOORE. I presume. I have been told that. I have seen the record.

            Mr. HALLEY. They possessed and then altered and then passed Government bonds which had been stolen from the Bank of the Manhattan Co.

            Mr. MOORE. I haven't seen the complete run down on the case, fellow. It is a very famous case. It went clear up to the Supreme Court, did it not?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        23:

            Mr. HALLEY. How would you say that Graham and McKay are qualified after that conviction to operate a gambling establishment in the State of Nevada, or anywhere else ?

            Mr. MOORE. They are qualified—I wouldn't say they are qualified--

            Senator TOBEY. Was that conviction known to the tax commission in Nevada when you voted to give them a license ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. How do you reconcile that ?

            Mr. MOORE. To start with, it is an illustration, when a law is passed, we'll say, to protect the people such as the law concerning lawyers, such as the law concerning architects, such as the law concerning engineers, and so forth. There is a certain amount of granddaddy clause in there, isn't there?

            Senator TOBEY. Of course, I know the Interstate Commerce Commission has a granddaddy clause. That is the only one I know of.

            Mr. MOORE. All the other ones have, too, if you read the laws. In other words, there may be attorneys or there may be gamblers, or engineers, at the time that the law goes into effect that are in business in the State. Just because you get the privilege of controlling the thing, is that any reason why you should put the man out of business, if he is operating in the State of Nevada ?

            Senator TOBEY. Yes; I think it is; but you and I might differ about that. I think if you have a man that is crooked and shown to he crooked, and a lawbreaker, I wouldn't give him any privilege at all.

            What percentage of income from all these enterprises escapes Federal taxation, in your judgment?

            Mr. MOORE. Frankly, I have no way of knowing, if any. I frankly doubt if there is very much of it in the State of Nevada.

            Senator TOBEY. I just wanted to ask your opinion. Thank you very much for that.

            The CHAIRMAN. Anything else, Mr. Halley?

            Mr. HALLEY. Yes.

            Do you know Sanford Adler?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Does he operate a gambling establishment?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Which one ?

            Mr. MOORE.. Calnev, at Lake Tahoe, and Calnev Cluh, I believe, in Reno, Nev.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are you familiar with his record ?

            Mr. MOORE. His police record? As I remember it, he was arrested and convicted for stealing some iron, or something like that.

            Mr. HALLEY. He has a long list of arrests, does lie not, also ?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. How do you explain his being qualified for a license?

            Mr. MOORE. On the same explanation that I made as far as McKay and Graham were concerned.

            The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean lie was in business before?

            Mr. MOORE. He was in business in the State of Nevada at the time the tax commission was given the powers to control the licenses.

            Mr. HALLEY. You didn't throw out any of the people who were here?

24        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

Mr. MOORE. Are you going to throw out a man with a three-and-a half-million-dollar investment? In other words, the sheriff gave him a license. He has been operating in the State several years. You can't correct overnight a situation that existed prior to your enactment of a new law. In my opinion.

            Mr. HALLEY. Let's see who that left you with. You have got Graham and McKay. You have got Frankie Frost at the Reno Turf Club, is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. He is a Nation-wide hoodlum, isn't he?

            Mr. MOORE. Not to my knowledge ; no.

            Mr. HALLEY. Didn't he originally come from Chicago ?

            Mr. MOORE. At one time he appeared before the commission with his attorneys, in Reno, and they cleared about—at least 75 percent of those charges that were against him.

            Mr. HALLEY. Would you say that Wertheimer, from Detroit, is an outstanding example of a man who should be running a gambling establishment ?

            Mr. MOORE. The only thing I have to know is that the head of the FBI, former head of the FBI, from Detroit, Mich., recommended him.

            Mr. HALLEY. Recommended Wertheimer?

            Mr. Moons. Yes; stating that he was an upstanding man and a man of his word, and so forth and so on, and that he had never been involved in any criminal activity.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you believe that?

            Mr. MOORE. The head of the FBI is a pretty high man in a certain territory, and I would take their word for a lot of things; yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Haven't you ever heard of Wertheimer 's gambling activities in other States ?

            Mr. MOORE. Sure, but, as far as that is concerned, the man gambles. That is no sign that he shouldn't have a license in a State where it is legal.

            Mr. HALLEY. It makes no difference to you whether he gambles in a State where it is not legal ?

            Mr. MOORE. No. How is he going to learn the business?

            Mr. HALLEY. In other words you take the position that, because gambling is legal in the State of Nevada, that anybody who has been convicted for gambling in other States is not to be considered in any way disqualified; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is that a basic policy of the commission?

            Mr. MOORE. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. With regard for people who have been convicted for anything else, that doesn't disqualify them so long as they were in business here in 1948, is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. How do you exclude? How have you been excluding the several hundred?

            Mr. MOORE. Every case is an individual case.

            Mr. HALLEY. Can you give us some examples?

            Mr. MOORE. Well, as an illustration, recently a license was denied in Reno, principally due to the man's associates in New Jersey.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who was that?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        25

            Mr. MOORE. He was connected with, and so on.

            Mr. HALLEY. Was that Stacher?

            Mr. MOORE. Stacher.

            Mr. HALLEY. He is known as Doc Rosen—Stacher?

            Mr. MOORE. I think he is known as Doc Harris.

            Mr. HALLEY. There is a Doc Rosen here, too, isn't there? I don't want to confuse you. This is Joseph Stacher; is that right?

            Mr. MOORE. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. No more questions, Mr. Chairman.

            The CHAIRMAN. I believe that is all, Mr. Moore. Thank you. (Witness Moore excused.)

            The CHAIRMAN. Put in the record at this time that the digest is a part of the hearings at this point.

            Mr. HALLEY. May we make it exhibit No. 1, and it will not be typed in the record ?

            The CHAIRMAN. Exhibit No. 1, racing wire situation in Las Vegas. Then this memorandum from the committee which gives all of the licensed gambling operations; is that correct?

            Mr. ROBINSON. No.

            The CHAIRMAN. Memorandum for the committee on the certain place in Nevada will be marked "Exhibit No. 2."

            (Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2 are on file with the committee.)