[From Investigation of Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce: Hearings before the Special Committee to Investigate Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, U.S. Senate, 81st Cong., 2nd Sess. and 82nd Congress, 1st Sess., Part 10, US Government Printing Office, Washington DC: 1950., pp. 52-64.]

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52            ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

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            The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Clark is the next witness. Mr. Clark, do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

            Mr. CLARK. I do.

TESTIMONY OF WILBUR IVERN CLARK, LAS VEGAS, NEV.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is your full name?

            Mr. CLARK. Wilbur Ivern Clark.

            Mr. HALLEY. Your residence ?

            Mr. CLARK. Las Vegas, Highway 91.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are you the owner of the Desert Inn, or one of the owners?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, that is a corporation.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are you now employed by that corporation?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you any other occupation?

            Mr. CLARK. My brother and I have an interest in a cocktail bar in San Diego, and a little hotel.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is the cocktail bar connected with the hotel?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where is the hotel ?

            Mr. CLARK. I mean the hotel in San Diego. He and I had that 13 years.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is the name of that hotel?

            Mr. CLARK. Barbara Worth.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you have any other business interests?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. When did you first begin to build the Desert Inn, Mr. Clark ?

            Mr. CLARK. The actual construction of it?

            Mr. HALLEY. Yes.

            Mr. CLARK. I believe that was in May of 1947. It was around that time.

            Mr. HALLEY. How was it originally financed?

            Mr. CLARK. I went as far as I could with my money I had, and I got some from my brother and two or three other boys that I knew in San Diego.

            Mr. HALLEY. Specifically who put up the original financing?

            Mr. CLARK. I did, myself.

            Mr. HALLEY. What was the original amount of money which you invested ?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        53

            Mr. CLARK. Well, I would hate to say because I don't know exactly. I have that on the records, of course.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is your best estimate at this time?

            Mr. CLARK. It would be around a quarter of a million, I imagine.

            Mr. HALLEY. That was your own money?

            Mr. CLARK. My own money and my brother's and Mr. Nary's.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who is Mr. Nary?

            Mr. CLARK. That is a friend of mine from San Diego.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is his full name?

            Mr. CLARK. Thomas E. Nary.

            Mr. HALLEY. Were there any other investors?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes, Billie Williams. I think it is Alton Williams.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where is his residence?

            Mr. CLARK. It is Las Vegas.

            Mr. HALLEY. Anyone else?

            Mr. CLARK. Well--

            Mr. HALLEY. We are now talking about the original investment.

            Mr. CLARK. No, that is it.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much did the hotel take to build ? What was the total cost before completion?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, I don't know what you mean by that question.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is the book value of the Desert Inn?

            Mr. CLARK. I would hate to say. I don't know exactly.

            Mr. HALLEY. You were in charge of the construction of the building, weren't you?

            Mr. CLARK. No, I was there. I wasn't in charge.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who handled the finances ?

            Mr. CLARK. A boy by the name of Allard Rowan.

            Mr. HALLEY. Does he own any part of it?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know whether he has any money in it or not.

            Mr. HALLEY. What happened to the original $250,000? Was that placed in a corporation ?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, there was a corporation formed. I think that was just my money in there, and then we formed a corporation but never did use the corporation. Then I run out of money again and in 1949, which was—no, let's see—last. year I got a fellow to go in with me by the name of Rodison, R-o-d-i-s-o-n, and he put in $50,000 and was supposed to put in some more, and he wasn't very happy with the proposition for some reason, and then these fellows from Cleveland come in.

            Mr. HALLEY. How did they happen to come in ?

            Mr. CLARK. I'll tell you

            Mr. HALLEY. Try to be a little more businesslike in explaining these series of transactions about the financing, would you mind?

            Mr. CLARK. They are in Reno on a vacation, and of course they knew, like everybody in the United States knew, that I was trying to get money. 1 had set there from 1947 to 1949, was sitting there not finished.

            Mr. HALLEY. You started building this in 1947, is that right?

            Mr. CLARK. 1947.

            Mr. HALLEY. In 1949 you needed money to finish it, is that right?

            Mr. CLARK. I needed money the latter part of 1947, I believe it was, that I stopped construction.

54        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. Were you unable to obtain any money between then and 1949 ?

            Mr. CLARK. On that particular piece of property, yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. And then who were the people who came into it in 1949?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, they are all on record out there. One of them is named Sam Tucker, Moe Dalitz, D-a-l-i-t-z, Morris Kleinman, and Thomas McGinty. And then there is two or three small ones that I don't know whether they have money in it or not. I know they are in the organization.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is there a Louis Rothkopf ?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is there an Anthony Milano?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are you sure that neither of them has an interest?

            Mr. CLARK. As far as I know, I have never heard of either men that were putting in any money in it. I know they are not in the corporation.

            Mr. HALLEY. How did you happen to meet them?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, let's see; the first time I met them about 3 or 4 months before, here in Las Vegas, and I put the proposition to them, and they didn't like it. They turned it down.

            Mr. HALLEY. At this time you owned what percentage?

            Mr. CLARK. I had everything up at that time. It was mine, what I had built.

            Mr. HALLEY. Was it a corporation or a partnership ?

            Mr. CLARK. I think it was still just myself.  Like I told you, we started a corporation and we never did use the corporation.

            Mr. HALLEY. Had you borrowed the money from the other investors, such as your brother, or did they have an interest?

            Mr. CLARK. They were going to get their part of the percentage of whatever it amounted to when the place was finished.

            Mr. HALLEY. Then you began to negotiate with the people from Cleveland, is that right?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right. They come here from Reno and I said I couldn't do anything because Mr. Rodison is in here and he is supposed to raise money for me.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who is Mr. Rodison?

            Mr. CLARK. He is the fellow that I started with again in 1949, and "if he cares to make a deal with you fellows, that is fine." I said, "All I am interested in is getting the place built."

            Mr. HALLEY. At that point had Mr. Rodison put some money in? Mr. CLARK. $50,000, yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. And then did you negotiate with Rodison and the Cleveland group?

            Mr. CLARK. I introduced Mr. Rodison to Mr. Kleinman and Mr. Dalitz, and they made the deal with Mr. Rodison, and then I had my attorney come over from San Diego and made the deal.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is the present arrangement?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, it is a corporation. I am the president and Mr. Kleinman is the vice president, Al Rowan is the secretary, and I believe Mr. Dalitz is the treasurer.

            Senator TOBEY. How much stock do you own?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 55

            Mr. CLARK. I have 25 percent of the stock. I forgot Mr. Krosnick. He is also in on this thing, too. Mr. Krosnick has 4 percent of this 25, and my brother has 2. Mr. Nary has 1 1/2, and my brother has 1. So how much is that? I have the rest of 25 percent.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much money did the Cleveland group invest?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know. I couldn't say that because I wouldn't. tell the truth. I mean, we have only been open a few months.

            Mr. HALLEY. You negotiated the deal, did you not?

            Mr. CLARK. I know they were to finish the place. That is all. I would be glad to get the books or have the auditors get any of that stuff for you, but if I would say, I don't know.

            Mr. HALLEY. You mean the deal is that they were to finish the place?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who put up the bank roll?

            Mr. CLARK. They had to come up with the money.

            Mr. HALLEY. First you had the man Rodison, who put in $50,000. What percentage did he get?

            Mr. CLARK. There was no deal made. It was just one of those things. If it got into the building

            The CHAIRMAN. What we want to know is, what does Mr. Rodison have now?

            Mr. CLARK. Mr. Rodison doesn't have anything.

            The CHAIRMAN. They paid him out?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

            Senator TOBEY. How much did Kleinman & Co. get?

            Mr. CLARK. Kleinman & Co. got 74 percent. A fellow named Herman Greenspun got 1 percent.

            Senator TOBEY. How did he get that?

            The CHAIRMAN. Where does he come from?

            Mr. CLARK. Herman Greenspun was a boy around here that I have known for a long time, and we started on another piece of property that finally wound up being in the total. It is right next to it. It is a separate piece of property, and he went out and helped me raise a little money, and when this thing all wound up he wound up with 1 percent of the corporation, and they have 74; Mr. Greenspun 1; and I have 25.

            Senator TOBEY. That is gross?

            Mr. CLARK. That is gross.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is there a separate operating company aside from the owning company?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right. There is a company that operates the whole thing, and this is a company that operates this motel part that we put into the hotel which Mr. Greenspun has 30 percent of the motel part. The corporation has 70; I have 25 percent of the 70 percent.

            Mr. HALLEY. The corporation, then, has 70 percent of the motel?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. And 100 percent of the gambling, is that right?

            Mr. CLARK. Right, the corporation.

            Mr. HALLEY. And who runs the restaurants?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, it is all run under one management.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is that in the hands of the corporation or the motel?

56        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. CLARK. No, the motel has nothing to do with it. The motel has paid off at the rate, I believe, of $1.50 a day per room, and Green-spun gets 30 percent of that, and the corporation gets 70.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you get any salary ?

            Mr. CLARK. Do I get a salary ? Yes. I haven't got one yet. I am supposed to get one. We haven't set it up yet.

            Mr. HALLEY. How long has the Desert Inn been in operation?

            Mr. CLARK. Since the 24th of April ; 6 1/2 months.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who is on the premises representing the Cleveland group ?

            Mr. CLARK. Right now Mr. Tucker is there and Mr. Rowan is there and Mr. Jones. But I don't know whether he has a percentage or not. I believe he is one of the directors of the company.

            Senator TOBEY. Is Kleinman there ?

            Mr. CLARK. He isn't there.

            Senator TOBEY. How recently has he been there?

            Mr. CLARK. I think he left last Tuesday. I am not sure.

            Senator TOBEY. Where did he go ?

            Mr. CLARK. That I don't know.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is your function at the hotel? What do you do there?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, I am supposed to be the general manager.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are you?

            Mr. CLARK. I think so.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are you also managing the gambling operation?

            Mr. CLARK. Every department has the heads. It is a big corporation.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who are the heads? That is what I am attempting to ascertain.

            Mr. CLARK. Do you mean the heads of each individual department?

            Mr. HALLEY. Yes.

            Mr. CLARK. The hotel is run by a manager by the name of Stocking.

            Mr. HALLEY. Under your supervision?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, it is under the directors' supervision.

            Mr. HALLEY. Under what directors? Who are the directors?

            Mr. CLARK. If there is anything made that is big, a decision, they have a directors' meeting.

            Mr. CLARK. Myself. I believe it is Mr. Kleinman and Mr. Dalitz.

            Senator TOBEY. You have the most nebulous idea of your business I ever saw. You have a smile on your face but I don't know how the devil you do it.

            Mr. CLARK. I have done it all my life.

            Senator TOBEY. Let me ask you this : You just told us that you got 25 percent. How much did you pay—how much did you put in originally ?

            Mr. CLARK. Approximately—I say, I don't know for sure.

            Senator TOBEY. I know, approximately.

            Mr. CLARK. Around $200,000 or a little more.

            Senator TOBEY. So you got an equity of $200,000 put in originally? These fellows come in and finish the job, an amount you don't know anything about. They finish the job.

            Mr. CLARK. I know approximately.

            Senator TOBEY. He asked you and you said you didn't know.

            Mr. CLARK. I don't like to say because I don't know.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        57

            Senator TOBEY. What do you think approximately?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, I know that it costs over a million and a half.

            Senator TOBEY. So they put in a million and a half ?

            Mr. CLARK. No; I mean

            Senator TOBEY. How much did they put in?

            Mr. CLARK. I think they put in around a million and a half.

            Senator TOBEY. And they got 74 percent for the million and a half ?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. And you got 24 percent for your $200,000, is that right ?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right.

            Senator TOBEY. What represents the difference, the inequality there?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know. That is the way it is.

            Senator TOBEY. Who are the other directors? Yourself, Kleinman, McGinty, Dalitz ---

            Mr. CLARK. Dalitz and ---

            Senator TOBEY. Tucker?

            Mr: CLARK. Well, I don't think Tucker is a director.

            Senator TOBEY. How many directors are there altogether? You must know that.

            Mr. CLARK. There is five in all; myself and Kleinman and Dalitz, Rowan and Jones, is a director.

            Senator TOBEY. Then McGinty and Tucker are not directors?

            Mr. CLARK. No; I am sure they are not.

            Senator TOBEY. You are the president of the company?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. Who is vice president?

            Mr. CLARK. Kleinman.

            Senator TOBEY. Who is treasurer ?

            Mr. CLARK. Dalitz:

            Senator TOBEY. Is Dalitz on the premises regularly ?

            Mr. CLARK. No, he has been there several times this week.

            Mr. HALLEY. Then you are the resident manager, is that right ?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who operates the gambling there ? Who is in charge of that ?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, we have Mr. Jones. There is a Mr. Williams.

            Mr. HALLEY. What are their full names, please ?

            Mr. CLARK. Cornelius Jones, and lie represents those fellows, and Mr. Williams represents my group, Alton Williams.

            Mr. HALLEY. And they jointly operate the gambling rooms?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, I mean they are in charge at the hotel. It is one complete operation.

            Mr. HALLEY. Are they under your supervision ?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes, they are under the directors' supervision. I mean, if there is any decisions to be made, it has got to be made by everyone.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who is chief executive officer of the company?

            Mr. CLARK. I am the president. I don't know.

            Mr. HALLEY. You must be, then ; are you ?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know just exactly.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you have authority as president of the company ?

            Mr. CLARK. I have authority to a certain extent, yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is there a chairman of the board of directors?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

58        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. HALLEY. Then you would be the chief officer, would you not, as president?

            Mr. CLARK. I suppose so.

            Senator TOBEY. How often do you have directors meetings?

            Mr. CLARK. I think we have had about three, since.

            Senator TOBEY. You have minutes taken of all these meetings, don't you, written up and approved each time?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes.

            Senator TOBEY. Are they on hand? Are they available?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, sure.

            Senator TOBEY. That would show the delegation of power, what your delegation was and what your strength was?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right out in the hotel at the auditor's office.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who is your auditor?

            Mr. CLARK. Sam Wiener & Co., from Los Angeles.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who are your counsel for the operation?

            Mr. CLARK.. Mr. MacNamee, here in Las Vegas, Leo MacNamee.

            Mr. HALLEY. What is the total bank roll for the gambling operations?

            Mr. CLARK. What is the total?

            Mr. HALLEY. Yes.

            Mr. CLARK. I believe that we have $100,000 bankroll.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you put up your share of the bankroll ?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. That was part of the deal, that they put up your share of the bankroll?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Does your share come out of the profits, or simply your end?

            Mr. CLARK. When they get a certain amount of money back, after what they put in to make it even. For instance, if the place was supposed to cost a million dollars, and I had 25 percent, that means that they would have to—they would get $750,000 and I would get $250,000. But anything they put in over that they are entitled to get out first, before I get any profits.

            Mr. HALLEY. According to, I believe, Life magazine and various other publications, a great deal more than $1,500.000 was invested in that building. What was invested, do you know I,

            Mr. CLARK. You will have to see the books on that.

            Mr. HALLEY. Could it have been as much as 5 or 6 million dollars?

            Mr. CLARK. I mean, it is right on the books. I told you what I thought it was. I am sure it is over a million and half.

            Mr. HALLEY. You don't think it could be as much as $5,000,000 ?

            Mr. CLARK. I know it is not possible to be anyways near, close. It is only what I said.

            Mr. HALLEY. In your efforts to raise money to complete the structure, who did you approach.

            Mr. CLARK. I approached everybody in the United States, almost?

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you approach Frank Costello?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. No?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Phil Kastel ?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        59

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Meyer Lansky ?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Jack Lansky ?

            Mr. CLARK. No, never met any of those gentlemen in my life.

            Mr. HALLEY. Jack Dragna ?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Mike Accone ?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you ever approach Siegel ?

            Mr. CLARK. No; I don't think I ever saw him.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you approach any gamblers for financing, and if so, who?

            Mr. CLARK. No. I was open to anyone but it was mostly people—I even went back to Washington and tried to get money from the RFC. I didn't stop any place.

            Senator TOBEY. They have done enough things to be called suckers without doing that.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is there any mortgage on the property ?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes, we have a $500,000 mortgage.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who issued that mortgage?

            Mr. CLARK. It is a company in Texas. I don't know what the company's name is.

            Mr. HALLEY. Is it a bank or a mortgage company?

            Mr. CLARK. I think it is a mortgage company.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you know that Morris Kleinman has served a 3-year sentence in Federal prison?

            Mr. CLARK. I have heard that, yes. I don't know it.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you know whether or not he was in the gambling business in the East?

            Mr. CLARK. By rumors, that is all.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you have knowledge of McGinty's background?

            Mr. CLARK. No, I hadn't. I never heard of Mr. McGinty.

            Mr. HALLEY. He is one of your associates, is he not?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you know that he had a bootlegging conviction ?

            Mr. CLARK. I have heard that; yes, sir.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you know that he had operated gambling houses in the East'?

            Mr. CLARK. I mean, I don't know it. Again it is a rumor.

            Mr. HALLEY. Tucker is another one of your associates, is that right?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you know that he had been engaged in the gambling business in the East?

            Mr. CLARK. I had heard the same about Mr. Tucker ; yes, sir.

            Mr. HALLEY. He has been interested in the gambling casinos in Covington, Ky., has he not, across from Cincinnati ?

            Mr. CLARK. There has been rumor to that. I can't say that is so.

            Mr. HALLEY. It may be Newport as well as Covington. Do you know the area I am talking about?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

            Mr. HALLEY. Wasn't he interested in that area, in gambling casinos there•?

60        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

            Mr. CLARK. I couldn't say that he was because I don't know,

            Mr. HALLEY. But you have heard that?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes, I have heard that.

            Senator TOBEY. Before you got in bed with crooks, to finish this proposition, didn't you look into these birds at all?

            Mr. CLARK. Not too much; no, sir.

            Senator TOBEY. You didn't care where the money came from or how dirty or rotten, as long as you finished the building, is that it?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, I wanted the building finished. I didn't hear anything bad about those fellows.

            Mr. HALLEY. Dalitz, also, was associated with Kleinman, was he not, bootlegging and gambling activity ?

            Mr. CLARK. They come out here together. I know nothing about their background at all.

            Mr. HALLEY. Dalitz has a laundry service here, has he not?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't think so.

            Mr. HALLEY. The Pioneer Laundry Service?

            Mr. CLARK. That is a new one on me.

            Mr. HALLEY. Has he been in the laundry business in the East?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know. I have heard that he has been in the laundry business.

            Mr. HALLEY. When these people joined your enterprise, you know that they were people who had operated illegal gambling enterprises throughout the country, is that right?

            Mr. CLARK. I have heard that, yes. I have never saw them operate but I heard that.

            Mr. HALLEY. When you were building the Desert Inn, did you visit a lot of gambling establishments to observe their layout?

            Mr. CLARK. No, no.

            Mr. HALLEY. You told that to the press, though, didn't you?

            Mr. CLARK. No ; I told the press nothing. I don't tell the press what to write; they write what they want.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you, in fact, visit gambling establishments throughout the country ?

            Mr. CLARK. No. I used to work as a dealer years ago.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where did you work as a dealer?

            Mr. CLARK. In 1937 was the last time I ever worked. I worked in Saratoga. I believe the place was named Piping Rock.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who owned it?

            Mr. CLARK. I have no idea.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you ever meet Frank Costello ?

            Mr. CLARK. Never met the man in my life.

            Mr. HALLEY. You say you never met Meyer Lansky ?

            Mr. CLARK. No, sir.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you ever meet Joe Adonis?

            Mr. CLARK. No, sir.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you ever met Charlie Fischetti ?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you ever met Mike Accone?

            Mr. CLARK. No; I don't know him.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who employed you to work at the Piping Rock?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know. 1937 is a long time ago.

            Mr. HALLEY. What other gambling establishments did you ever

work in?

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        61

            Mr. CLARK. Well, to go back to 1932 or 1931, I worked in a place called the Edgmont Club in Hollywood. That was in 1931. I worked on the old gambling boats in 1932.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you mean off the California shores?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. Which boats did you work on ?

            Mr. CLARK. I worked on the Joanne A. Smith. It burned down. And the Monte Carlo—no; I didn't work the Monte Carlo. It was the Tango. I am sorry.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who were your employers in the Tango ?

            Mr. CLARK. Clarence Blicer was supposed to be the main fellow, but I imagine he had a lot of partners. I don't know.

            Mr. HALLEY. What kind of dealer were you, what game?

            Mr. CLARK. I was a crap dealer at that particular time.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you ever deal in any other game?

            Mr. CLARK. Yes; I have dealt the wheel. I have dealt twenty-one.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where else have you worked as a dealer?

            Mr. CLARK. I broke in as a dealer in 1931 in Reno, at the Bank Club.

            Mr. HALLEY. Have you ever worked in Florida ?

            Mr. CLARK. No; never on the east coast, only 30 days in Saratoga. That was the only time I was ever East.

            Mr. HALLEY. You never worked in New Jersey?

            Mr. CLARK. No ; only Saratoga.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where else have you worked?

            Mr. CLARK. I have worked in Palm Springs 3 or 4 years, a place called the 139 Club.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who owned that?

            Mr. CLARK. A fellow by the name of Earl Saucer.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did Frank Portmeier have any connection with that?

            Mr. CLARK. No, no.

            Mr. HALLEY. Portnoy ?

            Mr. CLARK. Frank Portnoy; I knew Frank Portnoy, but I had no connection.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where else have you worked as a dealer?

            Mr. CLARK. I worked at a place in Hollywood, too, called the La Boheme. That was in 1933.

            Mr. HALLEY. You say in 1937 you stopped working. What did you do from 1937 on, after you gave up working?

            Mr. CLARK. I didn't stop working.

            Mr. HALLEY. I am just using your words.

            The CHAIRMAN. He said he stopped working as a dealer.

            Mr. CLARK. Stopped working as a dealer, I said.

            Mr. HALLEY. What did you do after 1937?

            Mr. CLARK. I had this little hotel in San Diego.

            Mr. HALLEY. When did you acquire that?

            Mr. CLARK. That, I believe, in 1936 or 1937.

            Mr. HALLEY. Were you the sole owner

            Mr. CLARK. Yes; up until, I think, 1941, and I cut my brother in for half of that.

            Mr. HALLEY. What other businesses have you had since 1937?

            Mr. CLARK. I had four or five cocktail bars in San Diego.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you have gambling in any of them?

            Mr. CLARK. No; I had a card room, a legitimate—they called it legitimate. They gave you a license to deal draw poker, which isn't

62        ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE

against the law in California, in the Monte Carlo. And I also had a cardroom around the corner called the Bomber Club.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you have any gambling in your hotel?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you know Bompensiero of the Gold Rail, San Diego?

            Mr. CLARK. No.

            Mr. HALLEY. Do you know the Gold Rail?

            Mr. CLARK. I know the man who built the Gold Rail, but I don't know this fellow you are talking about.

            Mr. HALLEY. You have never met him?

            Mr. CLARK. I couldn't say I didn't. The name didn't hit me at all.

            Mr. HALLEY. What other businesses have you had?

            Mr. CLARK. That is all.

            Mr. HALLEY. And you were able to amass

            Mr. CLARK. I had the El Rancho Vegas Hotel here. I had that place for 2 years.

            Mr. HALLEY. During which 2 years did you have that?

            Mr. CLARK. I went there June 15th of 1944 and left there April 1, 1946.

            Mr. HALLEY. What did you have there, a lease?

            Mr. CLARK. No; I bought it outright with two other fellows, and at the latter part of it I had a lease.

            Mr. HALLEY. Who were the other two people?

            Mr. CLARK. Clayton Smith and Sid Barish.

            Mr. HALLEY. Where were they from?

            Mr. CLARK. Los Angeles.

            Mr. HALLEY. What businesses had they been in previously ?

            Mr. CLARK. Clayton Smith has been a hotel man all his life, and Sid Barish in the hotel-brokerage business, I think he calls his business.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much did you pay for the El Rancho Vegas?

            Mr. CLARK. Do you mean in cash or do you mean on paper?

            Mr. HALLEY. Both.

            Mr. CLARK. We paid at the rate of, I believe, $1,000,000, $50,000 down.

            Mr. HALLEY. What happened to your interest hi the El Rancho Vegas?

            Mr. CLARK. I sold out. in November or December of 1945 with a lease to run the casino until April 1, 1946; sold it to Joe Drown, the fellow that we bought the place from.

            Mr. HALLEY. What was the selling price?

            Mr. CLARK. On paper again, if I am not mistaken, it was around $1,500,000. Those figures are all down on black and white. I would hate to say those things because books is the last of my department I never take any care of that. I always had auditors to do that sort of thing, because I am not much of a businessman.

            Mr. HALLEY. Then you made a profit on the El Rancho deal?

            Mr. CLARK. Sure, I had a profit.

            Mr. HALLEY. Did you have a third of that deal? What was your interest with your two partners?

            Mr. CLARK. I had 45 percent, when we first went in.

            Mr. HALLEY. What did you have at the end?

            Mr. CLARK. I had 60 percent, and I gave Paul—wait a minute. That is right. I gave Paul 15 percent.

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE        63

            Mr. HALLEY. As you stated, you made $350,000; is that right? Mr. CLARK. Who said that ?

            Mr. HALLEY. The profit on the resale was $350,000?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know exactly what it was. I would be glad to find out exactly what you want to know.

            Mr. HALLEY. Was it in the neighborhood of several hundred thousand dollars?

            Mr. CLARK. Well, yes; I would say it was.

            Senator TOBEY. Is that unusual in your life, to make a profit of a quarter of a million dollars? Is that unusual in your life's experience?

            Mr. CLARK. It is very unusual.

            Senator TOBEY. Wouldn't you naturally remember about what it was ?

            Mr. CLARK. No; it is quite a while ago, you know.

            Senator TOBEY. I think it would stand out like a sore thumb.

            Mr. HALLEY. That is where you got the money to finance the Desert Inn isn't it?

            Mr. CLARK. That is where I would say I got the most of what I had.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much cash did you put in the El Rancho deal?

            Mr. CLARK. I just told you, $50,000.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much of that was your own ?

            Mr. CLARK. Whatever 45 percent of $50,000 is.

            Mr. HALLEY. Something under $25,000?

            Mr. CLARK. That is right.

            Mr. HALLEY. How much cash did you get out of it on the final sale?

            Mr. CLARK. Again I would have to find out. I got $100,000 at one time. That was at the end of it. I mean, when you start asking about those figures, I don't know. I would be glad to get them for you.

            Mr. HALLEY. You got your money back with your share of the profit of several hundred thousand dollars; is that right?

            Mr. CLARK. I got a very nice profit. I don't remember exactly what it was.

            Mr. HALLEY. And that is what you used to finance the Desert Inn?

            Mr. CLARK. I guess I had a few dollars that I had saved up over my life.

            Mr. HALLEY. That is

            The CHAIRMAN. In all of this career of yours, did you ever get arrested or convicted ?

            Mr. CLARK. No, sir.

            The CHAIRMAN. You always have been fortunate?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't think fortunate. I just never did do anything to get arrested.

            The CHAIRMAN. Does any of the New York group come and stay with you at the Desert Inn ?

            Mr. CLARK. There has never been any since we have been there. If they have, I don't know.

            The CHAIRMAN. Frank Costello, Erickson ?

            Mr. CLARK. I have heard of them.

            The CHAIRMAN. Machetti, of Chicago ?

            Mr. CLARK. I don't know any of them at all. I have heard of all of them, naturally. I read the papers.

            The CHAIRMAN. But they never have been to see you?

            Mr. CLARK. No, sir; not to see me. If they have been in the hotel, I don't know.

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            The CHAIRMAN. How many guest rooms do you have in the Desert Inn?

            Mr. CLARK. Approximately 225, I would say. It is very close.

            The CHAIRMAN. That is all.